Curse

darkling · Oct 02, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

this could almost be posted in the bugs section, but I think more people will realize it and get annoyed with it here

.

so I was browsing guild wiki as i often do while working on homework

when I noticed that the primary quests in GWEN give different amounts of reputation

Asuran - finding the bloodstone, and the elusive geomance each give 3000 points

Norn - most of the primary quests give either 250 or 500 rep

Ebon Vanguard - 250 for each of the four quests/missions

as in my other post here I am working for Ebon armor on my Derv. I was deply perturbed to see that the Asurans get a crap load more reputation from doing the primary quests than the other two factions do.

Hell, if I was working towards Asuran armor right now. I would have my armor!!

so any way im done ranting. I hope some people read this.

Mohnzh · Oct 02, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

I think there is a slight imbalance in favor of Asura. For Norn, I think there are several more quests than Asura has and that mostly makes up for it, but I do think that Vanguard is left behind. I got r4 Asura and very close to r4 Norn without ever going out for the sole purpose of gaining rep, I only got r3 for Vanguard, though. BTW, I have not done the Polymock or Norn fighting quests so there is more rep to be had for those there too. Does Vanguard have an equivalent?

darkling · Oct 02, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

there is sadly no charr pwning mini game, the closest i can think of is running cathedral of flames for cash and 300 rep per run

and even the Norns only get a total of around 3000 from their whole story while i forgot to add the 1000 for finishing the asura part. that brings asura up to 7000 for their quest chain

Redfeather1975 · Oct 02, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I noticed this too and was shocked when I did the Asuran chain.
It's because the main quests are also tied into finishing dungeons.
Dungeons give rep points too.

darkling · Oct 02, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

true, but ravens point gives 1500 if you do it outside of the quest chain

so does chathedral of flames, and oolas lab. the rep points are from the quests not dungeons

nunix · Oct 02, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

No, but generally people do a whole area at once.. and that STILL leaves Asura on top, and Vanguard on the bottom. Well, Deldrimor is on top if you do dungeons, I think you wind up about halfway through rank 5 if you run under a blessing for each dungeon, once, plus their quests etc.

The fixed Charr Plans MIGHT help Vanguard even that out a little more, but even doing all quests, dungeons, and a little bit of Vanquishing Lite(tm) I still dropped off a handbook to get me to 4 (for charrslayin' weapon goodness).

CyberMesh0 · Oct 02, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Deldrimor is irrelevant due to the Snowmen dungeon. As far as Vanguard goes, it's pretty much Sacnoth Siege runs that give you the goods.

Commander Ryker · Oct 02, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

There's more points for asura because they are so freaking rude. It's a bribe to get you to do their story line. I was like, the hell with it, the destroyers can have them. lol

Crom The Pale · Oct 02, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I'd like to see some hard numbers before I comment one way or another.

Add up all the points for all the quests/dungeons/mini-games for Norn,Vanguard and Asura.

I would not be very surprised if they ended up being a lot closer than people think, since the Norn and Vanguard have many many more side quests than the Asura.

MagmaRed · Oct 02, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Norn
Northern Allies = 1000
Tracking the Norn Bear = 250
Curse of the Norn Bear = 500
Flames of the Bear Spirit = 250
Blood Washes Blood = 500
A Gate Too Far = 1000
Total = 3500 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Asura
The Knowledgeable Asura = 1000
Finding Gadd = 250
Finding the Bloodstone = 3000
Lab Space = 250
The Elusive Golemancer = 0
A Little Help = 250
Genius Operated Living Enchanted Manifestation = 1000
Total = 4750 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Ebon Vanguard
The Missing Vanguard = 1000
Search for the Ebon Vanguard = 250
Against the Charr = 0
The Dawn of Rebellion = 250
Warband of Brothers = 0
What Must Be Done = 250
Assault of the Stronghold = 0
Total = 1750 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Dwarven
Against the Destroyers = 1000
Heart of the Shiverpeaks = 250
Destruction's Depths = 0
A Time for Heroes = 0
Total = 1250 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Now, those numbers were taken from the unofficial Guildwiki, and I did not include any of the Dungeon rewards, as you can complete the entire game with no dungeons done. Dungeons will give more Dwarf points though.

I'd say the numbers are imbalanced

Celain · Oct 02, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Norn
Northern Allies = 1000
Tracking the Norn Bear = 250
Curse of the Norn Bear = 1000
Flames of the Bear Spirit = 250
Blood Washes Blood = 1000
Vision of the Raven Spirit = 250
A Gate Too Far = 1000
Total = 4750 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Asura
The Knowledgeable Asura = 1000
Finding Gadd = 250
Finding the Bloodstone = 3000
Lab Space = 250
The Elusive Golemancer = 3000
A Little Help = 250
Genius Operated Living Enchanted Manifestation = 1000
Total = 7750 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Ebon Vanguard
The Missing Vanguard = 1000
Search for the Ebon Vanguard = 250
Against the Charr = 1000
The Dawn of Rebellion = 250
Warband of Brothers = 0
What Must Be Done = 250
Assault of the Stronghold = 0
Total = 2750 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Dwarven
Against the Destroyers = 1000
Heart of the Shiverpeaks = 250
Destruction's Depths = 3000
A Time for Heroes = 0
Total = 4250 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Now, those numbers were taken from the unofficial Guildwiki, and I did not include any of the Dungeon rewards, as you can complete the entire game with no dungeons done. Dungeons will give more Dwarf points though.

I'd say the numbers are imbalanced

Updated your numbers (taken from official guild wars wiki).

Hyper Cutter · Oct 02, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I'm pretty you get dwarf points for beating the Great Destroyer... a lot of them, iirc...

Crom The Pale · Oct 02, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

But if you add in all the non-primary quests? They are meant to be completed as well and do add to your totals.

darkling · Oct 02, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

the quests do add some, but that still leaves vanguard waaaay behind. they are the only ones out of the four with out a mini game too

MagmaRed · Oct 02, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

I'll use official Wiki this time, and hope I get better numbers.

Norn
The Misanthropic Jotun Principle = 750
Darkrime Delves (dungeon) = 1500
Shadows in the Night = 100
Leader of the Pack = 250
A Hunter's Pride = 100
The Anvil of Dragrimmar = 500
Sepulchre of Dragrimmar (dungeon) = 0
Truthseeker = 100
Round 1: Fight! = 150
Cold Vengeance = 3000
Frostmaw's Burrows (dungeon) = 0
Bear Club for Men/Women = 100
Prenuptial Disagreement = 250
The Great Norn Alemoot = 100
Vision of the Raven Spirit = 250 (missed this one in Primary questlisting)
Worthy Deeds (Done Dirt Cheap) = 250
Anything You Can Do = 250
Cold as Ice = 500
Defending the Breach = 500
Raven's Point (dungeon) = 1500
Total = 10250 + points from primaries = 15,000

Asura
Turning the Page = 100
The Asura Trap = 125
Insidious Remnants = 150
Moths to a Flame = 175
The Justiciar's End = 250
Lost Souls = 0
Shards of Orr (dungeon) = 3000
Frogstomp = 0
Give Peace a Chance = 0
Crystal Methos = 0
The Arrow's Point = 0
The Blades Essence = 0
Bloodstone Caves (dungeon) = 0 (get Dwarf points for it)
Scrambled Reinforcements = 0
Arachni's Haunt = 1500
Little Workshop of Horrors = 0
Oola's Lab = 500
Polymock: Defeat Yulma = 100
Polymock: Defeat Plurgg = 100
Polymock: Defeat Blarp = 200
Polymock: Defeat Fonk = 250
Polymock: Defeat Dune Teardrinker = 250
Polymock: Defeat Grulhammer Silverfist = 250
Polymock: Defeat Necromancer Volumandus = 250
Polymock: Defeat Master Hoff = 1000
Giriff's/Tekk's War = 0
Bogroot Growths (dungeon) = 1000
The Cipher of Melandru = 100
The Cipher of Balthazar = 100
The Cipher of Grenth = 100
The Cipher of Dwayna = 100
The Cipher of Lyssa = 100
The Cipher of Kormir = 100
The Path to Revelations = 100
O Brave New World = 100
Total = 10,000 + primary points = 17,750

Ebon Vanguard
Falling Out = 100
Forgotten Relics = 100
Watch it Jiggle = 0
Ooze Pit (dungeon) = 0
Temple of the Damned = 0
Cathedral of Flames (dungeon) = 1500
Veiled Threat = 0
Rragar's Menagerie (dungeon) = 3000
Failure to Communicate = 100
The Imploding Past = 150
The Assassin's Revenge = 50
Be Very, Very Quiet... = 100
Plan A = 100
Forbidden Fruit = 150
The Smell of Titan in the Morning = 250
The Hunting of the Charr = 250
Single Ugly Grawl Seeks Same for Mindless Destruction in Ascalon = 150
Kathandrax's Crusher = 0
Catacombs of Kathandrax (dungeon) = 1500
Charr Invaders = 150
Service: Practice, Dummy = 100
Mano a Norn-o = 100
Service: In Defense of the Eye = 250
Special Ops: Flame Temple Corridor = 200
Special Ops: Grendich Courthouse = 200
Special Ops: Dragon's Gullet = 200
Total = 8700 + primary quests = 11,450

Dwarf
Dredging the Depths = 0
Vloxen Excavations (dungeon) = 1500
Attack on Jalis's Camp = 100
In the Service of Revenge = 100
Destructive Research = 100
The Destroyer Challenge = 100
Bloodstone Caves (dungeon) = 1500
Secret Lair of the Snowmen (dungeon) = 500
Punch the Clown = 100
Kilroy Stonekin's Punch-Out Extravaganza! = 0
Kilroy's Punchout Tournament = 120
Total = 4120 + primary quests = 8370

Now, you will easily get a ton of points by doing any dungeon for the Dwarf title track. But looking at ALL possible quests (although I may have missed some), it is clearly not balanced. The Asurans give twice as much as the Dwarves. Lucky for the dwarves, they offer points in dungeons. But the Ebon Vanguard is clearly missing out on a lot of opportunities. I'd think it would be easy for them to add points into the Ooze Pit, and maybe boost a few of the rep points for quests. Norn could use alittle help too, but not as much. Asuran just has too easy a time compared to the others for gaining ranks.

*edit - fixed Cold Vengence, and learned I need to check BOTH wiki's for accuracy, lol

shogun avatar · Oct 04, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Frostmaw's Burrows DOES indead give you 3000rep if you finish it once, and 300 for every other complete run. You forgot that in your calculations. There are probably more miscalcs, but this is the first one i saw

MagmaRed · Oct 04, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Fixed the numbers. Frostmaw doesn't give points directly, which I thought was odd, and wiki told me Cold Vengence didn't give any... until I checked the unofficial wiki.

Thanks for pointing it out though, as it made me double check on it.

strcpy · Oct 04, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Ebon Vanguard
The Missing Vanguard = 1000
Search for the Ebon Vanguard = 250
Against the Charr = 0
The Dawn of Rebellion = 250
Warband of Brothers = 0
What Must Be Done = 250
Assault of the Stronghold = 0
Total = 1750 (this ignores all non-primary quests and bounties)

Something is VERY wrong there. I'm rushing my Ele through there to get Gwen's quests with her flute or tapestry, doing nothing more than primary quests and the time or two you are in an explorable and get bounties (I avoid enemies, I think I only got over 25 kills once or twice) and I'm well over 3000 and still have the last mission left.

I did notice a few of the mission gave +1000 points and it was *not* listed as a quest reward nor did it seem to be listed in the wiki or in my quest log. I assumed it was something similar to Dungeon Rewards but I do not really know. As a "side reward" to the quest it shouldn't be listed a quest reward, though Anet would take that into account.

My Dervish, who just played normally doing all the quests as she finds them, taking bounties, and a bit of exploring (not really grinding anything other than some Dwarven points in the snowman lair) is the base that I use. She had her Asuran rank a bit higher than the others and norn the smallest (however, she did the Norn tract during the preview weekend and rewards have been changed and she didn't grind any points that weekend). All finished around the same though, top end of rank 3 on Norn and Ebon, bottom of rank four on Asura. I ground out rank 4 on Dwarven before attacking the Great Destroyer and finished almost at 5. I did a dungeon or two in there also, though they gave Dwarven points.

Free Runner · Oct 04, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

5000 Deldrimor points are awarded upon beating the Great Destroyer the first time. Sometimes reputation points are awarded yet not part of the quest reward.

knifff · Oct 04, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Slaver's Exile grants you 5000 norn points when you beat Duncan the first time.